The coverline of Barry Deutsch's new graphic novel, Hereville: How Mirka Got her Sword, says it all: "Yet another troll-fighting 11-year-old Orthodox Jewish Girl." The book, which began as a Web comic, will be published by Abrams in November. PW Comics Week talked to Deutsch about his inspiration for the story (spoiler alert); the development of his characters; his research into Orthodox Jewish culture; and the ways the book evolved as it changed forms from Web comic to printed book.
PWCW: What was the germ of this story?
Barry Deutsch: Years ago, I was thinking about how traditional heroic fantasy tales never seem to be about Jews. What if the barrier was that Jews in Europe, at some times in history, weren't allowed to carry swords? You can't slay a dragon if it's illegal for you to have a sword. So I was contemplating a story about a Jewish dragon-slayer in medieval times, and to put yet another barrier in the way I thought the hero should be a woman.
That story never went anywhere, but a while later girlamatic.com—a website specializing in "girl-friendly" comics—announced that they were looking for new features to carry. And I was feeling desperate to create a comic book story that was simple, and fun, and that I'd actually finish drawing! About a decade earlier, I had read Liz Harris' book Holy Days, about life in a Hasidic community in Brooklyn, and I remembered what a fascinating setting that was. From there, it was only a short leap to thinking about an 11-year-old Jewish girl's quest for a sword.
PWCW: Mirka lives in a world that seems very old-fashioned, but every now and then you put in something like an electric light or a barbecue to remind us that she is living in modern times. How did you come up with the town of Hereville and how did you balance the traditional and the modern?
BD: Setting Mirka's story in a small town in the modern USA came from reading a review of Stephen Bloom's Postville, a book about a small Iowa town in which Hasidim are about half the population. And maintaining the balance between Hasidic life and electric lights isn't difficult at all, because there's really no contradiction there. After all, there are over a million Hasidic Jews living in the world today, and virtually all of them have electricity in their homes.
PWCW: The story changed quite a bit between webcomic and print edition. Why did you make those changes?
BD: When I began the webcomic, I had no idea where I was going; my goal was to create a two-page sample to show the editors at Girlamatic. Then, after Girlamatic said "yes," I had to figure out what came next! So as I was making up new pages, I was also researching, and as I learned more about life in an extremely Orthodox Jewish community, I knew more about Mirka's life and Mirka's story.
So that was one reason to make changes—so I could incorporate all that research into the story! There's a lot of little details that changed, like knowing that Fruma, Mirka's stepmother, would wear a snood over her hair, that I was pleased to be able to do better the second time around. Another reason to redo a lot of the story is that my drawing improved a lot in the years since I began the webcomic. By redoing a lot of the comic, I was able to make my drawing style a lot more consistent.
PWCW: Which change do you think is the most significant?
BD: The addition of Mirka's sisters, especially Gittel and Rochel. One thing I learned is that a typical Hasidic family is pretty large. And because the sexes are so segregated, in many ways Hasidic girls spend most of their pre-marriage lives surrounded by girls and women. Introducing Gittel and Rochel let me make the comic more girl-centric like that, and also let me depict a range of girlhoods, rather than making Mirka (who is outrageously tomboyish) the only girl in the story.
PWCW: The first part of the story is like something from a folk tale—after Mirka steals a grape from a witch's garden, she is repeatedly harassed by a giant pig. Why did you add this sequence to the story, and what function does it serve?
BD: Maybe you'd better put a spoiler alert on this interview, because I can't answer this question without spoilers! Part of the reason for the pig is just to provide an exciting action sequence, and one in which Mirka can prevail not through being violent but through being brave and determined. (Unlike Mirka, I prefer non-violent solutions to problems!) After we see what Mirka goes through with the pig, I hope she seems plausible to readers as an action hero, because she was so tough facing down the pig. And I also hope readers will just plain like her after going through all that with her.
But in terms of the plot, the pig's function in the story is to put the Witch in Mirka's debt. Mirka rescues the pig from a couple of cruel boys, and as a result of that, the Witch tells Mirka where to find a magic sword, and that's what makes the whole story possible.
PWCW: Why did you decide to incorporate Orthodox Judaism so fully into your story?
BD: I wouldn't say that religion is central to the story, but it's central to the setting. (I should clarify, most Orthodox Jews in the real world wouldn't have any trouble recognizing a pig; but the fictional town of "Hereville" is so hyper-isolated from the larger culture that even things regular Orthodox girls would know about, Mirka sometimes doesn't know.)
I originally wanted to do a story set in an entirely Jewish community just because comics like that are interesting. I love Usagi Yojimbo, for instance, and Love and Rockets, and Dylan Meconis' Family Man, and a lot of Donna Barr's work. It's really enjoyable, as a reader, when a comic takes you to a real-world community or a culture you've never lived in. Once I decided to set Mirka's story in a Hasidic community, being honest about the setting required making religion central to much of her life. If celebrating Shabbos isn't a major part of Mirka's life, for example, then it would no longer be a story set in an Orthodox Jewish community; it would be another story altogether.
PWCW: Mirka is a very convincing character, especially in her moments of reflection and self-doubt. How were you able to get into the head of an 11-year-old Hasidic girl?
BD: Well, research helps, of course. I've read a lot of nonfiction about life in Hasidic communities, the most helpful of which was Stephanie Levine's Mystics, Mavericks, and Merrymakers. I also read novels written by women who had grown up in Orthodox communities, like Naomi Ragen. I read a lot of websites written by Orthodox Jews, especially websites by girls or women. But the most important thing to know is that people are people. Male writers who worry about "how women think," as if women are a different species from men, make things needlessly hard. Research is important, but in the end, Mirka's a person, I'm a person, and so we have a lot in common for me to draw on when I'm writing Mirka.
PWCW: Another thing that struck me was how well the characters deal with the gender roles of a traditional society. They don't totally conform, but they aren't all rebels, either. How were you, as an outsider, able to gain insight into that?
BD: Research! There's a lot of information out there about gender roles in Hasidic communities, if you look for it. My own politics are pretty feminist, and as a kid I was lousy at fulfilling the "boy" gender role. So it's natural that I'm drawn to a character like Mirka, a girl rebelling against her community's gender expectations. That's material I'm always comfortable writing.
But I also wanted to be fair in how I present the setting, and the truth is that most girls in a community like Mirka's fit in better than Mirka does, and are happy to do so. I wanted to show that in the comic. So we have Rochel, who—to my mind—is one of those people with a talent for happiness, and is mostly comfortable with what the world expects from her. And we have Gittel, who is a more prickly person, and has well-founded worries about her future—but who is sincerely dedicated to her role as a girl, and really wants most of all to be a good mother someday.
PWCW: Fruma, Mirka's stepmother, was a really interesting character. Did you have a particular model in mind for her?
BD: To tell you the truth, I have no idea where Fruma came from! But I'm grateful she did. She's my second-favorite Hereville character to write, after the troll.
PWCW: Your drawing style changed quite a bit between the webcomic and the book. What happened?
BD: Well, I started out drawing in high Muppet mode—huge mouths opening all the way anytime anyone says anything. And that was too emotionally one-notish—it makes it look like everyone's yelling all the time. So I dialed back on the Muppet-mouths a lot (although not entirely) and began to use a better range of expressions.
As time went on, I began incorporating the computer more into my drawing process, until I was "penciling" entirely on computer, and then inking over a print-out. Then I took the final step, and begin doing the finished art entirely on computer, drawing with a Wacom monitor. I find my line control is better on computer than on paper, probably because I blow up images really large while I draw them; noses are much more often placed where I want them, stuff like that. And with more control, I could get more ambitious about other aspects of the art—things like what kind of backgrounds I'd draw. Also, when I began drawing Hereville, I was afraid of drawing full-figures (where you see the entire figure, from head to toe) in panels, so I began making a point of doing a lot of full-figure drawings.
PWCW: How do you think your experience as an editorial cartoonist affects your drawing and storytelling style?
BD: Mostly as a negative example. Political cartoons—at least, the kind of political cartoons I do—have to have extremely straightforward artwork. Simple layouts, simple drawings, just give the readers what they need for the cartoon to work, because anything more detracts from the cartoon's point. So Hereville was my big chance to be playful with page layouts, and to use more interesting and creative storytelling techniques.
PWCW: Tell us about your plans for the next volume—and the volume after that!
BD: Well, I don't want to give too much away. But I'll say that book two's working title is Hereville: How Mirka Found The Time. The germ of the book was an old Jewish fairy tale, in which an entire town's spare time is stolen by a demon.
I'll also say that each book has a different "sidekick" who gets the most attention, after Mirka herself. So in book one, as you know, we see a lot of Zindel. In book two, Rochel really comes into her own, and is a partner to Mirka. And in book three, Gittel will be more important to the story. Finally, I can promise Fruma fans that we'll find out more about Fruma's background in book two.
