Flavia Alves Bravin has more than 25 years’ experience in publishing and is the head of Saber Education in Brazil, with leading imprints and brands from K-12 to Higher Ed. Saber is part of the Cogna Group, one of the largest private educational organizations in the world, where she is also a partner. Alves is a leading figure in the Brazilian trade associations.
How did you get into the publishing industry (and why?)
I think I was destined to be a publisher and in education since I was a kid. I am the daughter of teachers, and grew up in a house full of books and conversation about great authors. I have always been a good student and I wanted to work in education, to write, read, and give classes like my father.
But I got into publishing by chance. At the age of 17, when choosing my career, I wasn’t clear about what I wanted to do, but had a lot of different options in mind. I ended up studying business administration at the University of São Paulo and very much enjoyed it, and in the final year I worked in marketing with one of the biggest credit card companies in Brazil. One day, I saw an ad to be a business book editor— the application deadline had passed, but I decided to leave my printed resume under the internship section door anyway. It would be too good to be true: using the business administration course I took and being able to work with books at a publishing house! And it worked. I entered the publishing market on that day in 1997 and never left.
Why? It’s a mix of something accidental (leaving my resume when the deadline was already over) with what was meant to be (I can’t imagine doing anything else).
What career path brought you to Saber Education?
I entered the profession by chance, but I fell in love with it. I would come home at the end of the day having learned new things from all sides—what it was like to be an editor, an executive, what I read in the books I published, in the amazing conversations with the authors, and with my peers. I grew up in that business editorial world, which was brand new, hiring more people for the team, increasing the scope, breaking new ground such as digital. Along with the opening of new opportunities and changes in the market (new styles of work and of being an editor), opportunities began to appear and I progressed in my career. It was all very fast. At the age of 25, I became the area manager. When you’re inside, you don’t always notice so many changes, everything you’ve lived through—it was an era of all kinds of transitions in the publishing market.
Did you always want to be a leader of a publishing house?
In all the psychological tests that I do, I’ve always wanted to help people to develop, to learn, and to study. First as a teacher and then as an editor and manager. Being a leader in an area of education and books is a sensational opportunity to be able to do that: help in the growth of readers, students, teams; to be able to dedicate myself to the development of the people I work with, the people who study with our content and courses.
What challenges did you face in reaching such a senior position?
People always ask me that. I think I was so involved that I didn’t even realize the size of the obstacles (or have time to worry about them), I just walked or treated the obstacles as challenges that I would overcome.
I think my challenges are very similar to those faced by others in this industry—the devaluation of reading and books, and book piracy in Brazil. Of course, being a woman is also an issue. I remember some meetings I had at the beginning of my career where I was tested in every way until the author could trust me. I had the feeling of always needing to take an extra step to prove myself.
What is the publishing scene in Brazil like?
It’s not so different here from other countries suffering from social inequality. On the one hand, we have a rich array of publishers, creative professionals, and people wanting to publish their books. But on the other hand, we have channel challenges—a series of factors, exacerbated by the pandemic, mean that we have even fewer bookstores than before.
I thought digital would grow quickly here because we saw it in other countries. We read a lot about audiobooks, new e-book players, and we have most of the big players here. We challenged ourselves at Saber to grow every year in e-books, but it has not been easy. Unfortunately, we still read little as a country. Few books reach second editions, and few authors live off their writing.
Where does Saber fit into the industry?
It is part of one of the largest education groups in the world—more than $1 billion in revenue, 22,000 employees, one million students across its courses, schools and colleges. So, we have a large structure at our disposal, with large corporate areas, an internal university to train employees, the culture of a large corporation. But we are a national company—big, but Brazilian. We are now the largest Brazilian publishing company in the Global 50 publishing ranking, incorporating several companies.
What is the environment for women in publishing, especially in senior positions?
On the one hand, we don’t have as many women as we would like. But, on the other hand, I have so many special colleagues in the field, who are inspiring and shaping a new generation, that I am optimistic about it. For example, two of Saber’s units are run by incredible women: Daniela Villela at Red Balloon and Ana Paula Matos at Saraiva. Most of our editorial and content areas have senior women in leadership.
What and who has shaped and inspired your career so far?
I believe that we are all influenced, and myself in particular, by the people we live with the most. And I’ve been very lucky to meet very special people in my career and in my personal life. In my personal life, certainly my father. His values are deeply planted within me. In my professional life, the team I work with inspires me a lot. I am also very inspired by my boss—a voracious reader (I love people who love to read) with generosity, depth, and values.
What do you still wish to achieve in your career?
I think I’ve been so blessed in my career. My plans are for continuous improvement more than a title. I want to continue learning, feeling that at the end of each week I am a little more advanced.
Are the associations you work with active in encouraging female leadership?
The publishing industry has a lot of women, mainly at entry level, who join after graduating. But we are losing many women due to lack of care and inclusion, meaning we have few in leadership. But when we look at the associations of which I am a part, there are many women in management or board positions. When we organized the first PublisHer in Brazil, the associations agreed to help us immediately. They suggested people to be invited and helped with the press release and the logistics.
You facilitated a Women in Publishing (PublisHer) event at the São Paulo Book Fair. Can you tell us about this?
It was an incredible experience. It came from an informal conversation with Karine Pansa, who immediately sent a message to Bodour Al Qasimi (founder of PublisHer and president of the International Publishers Association). Bodour was extremely generous: on the one hand, she brought good practices from other countries but also gave us a lot of freedom to show the face of Brazil. The Saber/Saraiva Marketing team also put in their time pro-bono, and what was supposed to be a chat turned into a great event.
